Ren-Fair Special

REAL chain mail, People. Real chain mail. On a pup. That’s right. Helps protect from random chompage. Nice crest.


Oh, Sarcasta, how do I love thee? ❤



  1. How very adorable.

  2. Sir Chainmail McPupersons … hero to weenie dogs everywhere!

  3. Jessica S. says:

    They had a stuffed cat dressed this way at the ren fair I went to last weekend. It cracked us up!

  4. Happy Hallowiener Sir Wiener Dog!

  5. Gah! Weiner doggies and renfair spectacularness. Yup, my head just ploded.

    I curtsy to the fair knight and maiden.

  6. Peg of Tilling says:


  7. Look how he’s standing so tall and noble!!!!!

  8. AuntieMame says:

    Can anyone read heraldry?

    What is that? Cross on field of sable and azure, with dog, rampant?

  9. Perhaps Sir Weinelishious could don his mail at the dog show as well, to protect from package poking. Hail to you Sir!

  10. Gadzooks!

  11. ‘Z-Hounds!

  12. without the cm he’s a much taller dog?

  13. OK – look. I work at a public relations company, and just now I almost answered the phone saying “Puppy Relations.”

    This is just getting delightfully weird.

  14. Quarterly azur and sable, a weinerhound rampant argent…

  15. OUCH. Poor dog. As this is real chain mail, it WILL pull at its hair. Sorry, this may look cute but in reality the doggie probably suffered a lot whenever it made an attempt to run and especially when the chain mail was taken off.

  16. Chainmail on a puppers? You MUST be jousting!!!

    *huff huff*

    *Plugs one nostril and blows Nuff out the other one*

  17. The Guy Over There says:

    Where’s their scabbard for their +2 Canines of Sharpness?

  18. have to agree with rojukene. i thought the same thing immediately. sure, it’s cute to look at…but if it is, in fact, real chain mail, then that’s not so cool. that stuff is heavy and uncomfortable. poor doggie.

  19. Theeeeeeeo. Whar is he?

  20. Lol, +2 Canines of Sharpness!

  21. *Plugs one nostril and blows Nuff out the other one*

    ROFL! That is so good!! I hope you used an extra strong tissue to catch it.

    I’ve seen knitting and crochet patterns that make stitches like this.

  22. In spite of the claim of “real chain mail”, this looks like gray yarn knit with big needles into a sweater-vestie that just happened to look enough like metal that the owner said to him/herself “with a doggie crest safetypinned on, this could pass for a Halloween constume!” and commenced forthwith to make it so.

    That’s my thought, anyway.

  23. and now I see Claudia seems to have had the same thought.

  24. Mary – great minds and all that!

    I feel sorry for the Huffs and Nuffs. Must be a miserable existence only seeing negatives and expecting the worst.

  25. Agreed. That is one happy looking pup. Not uncomferbuls at all. I don’t think someone who loved thier dog enough to take them out dressed all fancy would let them be uncomfortable.

  26. “We’re knights of the Hound Table
    We fetch whenever we’re able…”

  27. D&D reference!!!!


  28. I’m pretty sure that was knitted on broomstick lace needles with a nice pewter yarn. If you haven’t seen what they’re doing with yarns lately, you’ll be amazed.

    They do look pretty happy… his tail is up in the “look at me I’m cute” attitude.

  29. I’m pretty sure that was knitted on broomstick lace needles with a nice pewter yarn. If you haven’t seen what they’re doing with yarns lately, you’ll be amazed.

    They do look pretty happy… his tail is up in the “look at me I’m cute” attitude.

  30. better to feel a little uncomfortable than to get one’s package poked.

  31. AIEEEEEEEEEE!!!! Puppers!!!

    Sarcasta, you rock!!!

  32. Hey Aubrey, I almost said I work for PuppyWaterhouseCoopers!

  33. It looks like chainmail to me… a piece that small isn’t that heavy, weight is evenly distributed, it really isn’t a burden. And the dogs I’ve seen wear chainmail never had a problem with fur-pullage.

  34. Yeah, stop harshing the kyoot peeps. This is damnably cute!

  35. yea verily you guys r silly says:

    poor puppeh in the back…I feel sorry for him…Not only does he NOT have spiffy chainmail, but it looks like the SUN is in his widdle eyes, and he’s squinting…..poor neglected puppeh needs chainmail AND SHADES! (or maybe a little helmet with a sunshield???)

  36. A very interesting site, I think. The Idea of Technometry was new for me but worth to be read and thought abot it (although I’m not a native english-speaker and have some difficulties whith this language)

  37. Aherm, as someone who once had to wear a chainmail bikini for my job at the RenFest, I can attest that well made chainmail doesn’t pull hair or pinch at all. It’s just the cruddy homemade stuff that does.

    Thank goodness no photos of MY chainmail wearing days have survived. [singsong]: No they didn’t!

  38. Redzilla:

    You where one of THE Chainmail Bikini Babes(tm)! I am shocked, SHOCKED I SAY!

    And then I said NEE!

  39. Redz – this bikini thing…were there others like you? Were you part of a chain gang?

  40. Redzilla the barbarian: chicks in chainmail. My 18 year old son says to tell you “Woot!”

  41. That is some first class ‘mail!

  42. send this puppy to 10 people in 10 minutes and your wish will come true.
    if not you will ROT IN HELL!
    oh, not that chain mail?
    nuffermind then…

  43. hrh.squeak says:

    For some reason, the scene in Court Jester where Danny Kaye gets knighted in tripletime comes to mind – “Is he a dog of valour and courtesy? Yea, verily, yea!”

  44. No, Aubs, no chain gang. We were a ch-ch-ch-chain of fools.

  45. Redz:
    I can see you all now (oh dear) – you must have looked dar-link!

  46. AllieSutherland says:

    I think that may be Sir Oscar de la Mayer, from the Michigan Renaissance Faire. He has been knighted by the Queen at that faire. 🙂 If it *is* him, it’s real chainmaile, and he LOVES it. He loves the attention it brings, too. He’s known as the “Weenie Warrior.” His “brother” is the “Weenie Wizard,” complete with costume.

  47. I know a few folks that make chainmail and yeah its very heavy when you are holding a shirt of it in your hands.
    However when worn the weight is distrubuted more evenly and it’s all that bad. The concern I’d have for Sir Doggersons is that they put some sort of cloth between the metal and fur. Even arm hair get caught if not protected.
    I actually witteness some rather hairy and foolish fellow extricating himself from a chainmail shirt. It was not at all pretty.

  48. Ok, my $2 (not just inflation…)

    I am a knitter. This is not knit. YOu can see ring sturcture, it’s not all “stripes” like reversed Stockinget stitch, you can’t see the v structure every other row you get with garter st, there is no row direction, which you would see on knitting, and the drape is just not right for that solidly knitted that piece would be. By teh by, “broomstick” knitting has a much larger gauge- like 3 st=2″ and uses much bigger yarn. This is a gauge you would get by working worsted on 8s, say, hardly “broomstick” unless you learned it in WWII.

    Also I have yet to see yarn that is that oxidize AL color that also has teh correct sheen. Being part jackdaw, I have an eye for shiny yarns!

    If this is good mail, half the rings are riveted shut, no grab there!

    this looks like it was made by a good mail maker- tightly constructed- little show thru, less to grab.

    Making mail out of aluminium shaves off so much weight.

    Doggies in horse barding or armor always make me giggle!

  49. WHEEEE Allie, I live 5 minutes from the Mich. Ren. Fest! Huzzah for Sir Oscar and The Weenie Wizard!!

  50. A thinker says:

    [goggle eyes at the thought of Redzilla in a chain mail bikini]

    [more goggle eyes at how amazingly creative the Nuffs have become lately]

  51. No they di-int! Sir Oscar de la Mayer. Bet he’s a real hot dog on the jousting field.

  52. What if there’s an sword fight? Will we see chain-length fencing?

  53. Ehn! It’s supposed to say ‘A sword fight’.

  54. That is indeed Sir Oscar, that is real chainmail (aluminum – weighs less than a pound), and whenever the owners jingle the coat, he comes running because he knows he’s going somewhere where a lot of people will pay attention to him.

  55. Aub: Have you ever seen Wilson Picket fencing?

  56. With the Bill Gates? Yes – very nice.

  57. Ah-ha! I thought it looked like aluminum! I used to make chainmail before my hands rebelled and I took up knitting.

    And doggy chainmail! I LOFF EET. And it’s adorable that he loves wearing it too!

  58. RedZ & AubrE — thanks for the laffs. I feel like a week-old dishrag right now, so, no mean feat.

  59. …and rabid knittertude STILL freaks me out. [jibblies]

  60. lurkertype says:

    I wish I had aluminum chain mail like Sir Oscar here. My chainmail bikini is steel and damn that’s heavy.

    No pix of me have survived, either, RedZ. Nuh-uh!


    His name is Oscar, aka Sir Oscar of The Meyer, and he and his family are regular visitors to the Michigan Renaissance Faire in Holly.

    That coat is real chain mail, but it is made of aluminum so it weighs less than a pound. Oscar is a short-hair so it doesn’t pinch in his fur. In fact he ADORES that coat, because when it comes out he knows that they are going to a place where people will fuss over him and give him pets and where there will be good things to smell! We have trouble keeping him out of the puddles of spilled beer at the Pub – he’s not old enough to drink – even in dog years! If they leave it on the floor he will run up to it and push it around with his nose trying to get into it.

    When he first showed up, the Queen pulled a badge off one of her guards and pinned to to Oscar’s coat, declaring him her Official War Dog!

    Oscar has 2 adopted siblings, the Weiner Wizard and the Puppy Princess, and they all come dressed to faire together.

  62. ROFL RedZ and Aub! Spiketacular are you both!

    Poor Tee! You sicko? I mean are you sick???

  63. Chain mail–it’s like knitting for RenFest geek men.

    And my bikini was also of steel. Nicely made, but heavy and cold. You know that saying about a witch’s tit in a brass brassiere? Yeah.

  64. Ok ok ok, we have TWO Renfair chainmail bikini babes in our midst???

    I am boggled!!!! And, I find it hard to believe not ONE pic has survived, girls.

    “Spit” them out!!!

  65. Chainmail babes comin’ down the Pike!!!

  66. Poor Teho. Perhaps a little bleach and a run through the microwave? ‘Cause that’s always good to perk up a week old dishrag.

    Or, you know, maybe just some chicken soup.

  67. I laughed and laughed and laughed at this. So cute!!!

  68. RedZ — I’m thinking maybe starting the weekend early, with Meg’s home remedy.

    Then come Monday, it’ll be ON, man.

  69. Alright, I think it’s time for somebody to send in some pics of Regal Cats ‘n’ Chainmail Racks! 😉

  70. Here is a picture of Oscar as a young-un. It’s Allie’s Live-Journal icon. They have had to lengthen the coat at least twice since then. His “mom”‘s name is Jamie.

  71. No way! Oscar as a puppeh is TOO cute. Aaaaahn.

    And there’s something to be said for high proof alcohol, Theo. Namely that it kills germs.

  72. T. –

    Enjoy a vanilla creme brulee chaser, won’t you? And enjoy this as well:

  73. [canine tilt returns]
    What manner of bot are you that can conjure flame without flint or tinder?
    …aw who cares; here, carmelize my brulée sugar.

  74. Hmmm…what an eccentric performance…

  75. (puts on goggles, guns the Brulee Torch of Doom)

  76. Waiter! My pudding’s on fire!

  77. Release the hounds!! You’d think that the armor would slow these mighty heroins down, but fear not! They shan’t disgrace their duties as official Weiner Dog Hounds of the Round Table.

  78. starrburstsnickers says:

    Be kind to Rojukene and Valerie, fellow cuteologists. They obviously care about the welfare of animals and were worried about the possibility that the dawgie might have been in discomfort. I found the picture very sweet, but even I wondered if the chainmail was hurting the dog in any way. Simple and natural concern, people! It’s not cute to undermine others who are expressing their concern for animals.

    Now everyone chill and have a puddin and watch the jousting match 🙂

  79. Neighborhood Kitty Haven says:

    Sorry guys, lurking in here. Theo, not only do you have to have hard alcohol, but it needs to be in hot toddy form. Water, brandy, honey & lemon! That is a sure fire cure from back in the way back. Aubrey, please keep the Torch of Doom going for some water for him too.

  80. If it’s real chainmail I’m surprised the dog has not collapsed under its weight. Chainmail is quite heavy. My brother has a chainmail hood that weighs like 20 pounds.

  81. Wowsers! What a day to take the day off from the intarweb! And here my photo of the cutest pupsters evar gets posted and where am I? Eating popcorn and watching the telly, is what.

    A right of passage is what this is! YES it was real chainmail and YES it was taken at the Michigan Holly Ren Faire about 3 years ago and YES several posters above seem to know more about Sir Oscar than me. =)

    And NO the doggy wasn’t too hot or uncomfortables. I hunkered down and asked him.

  82. if thats real chainmail, whoever own this dog shouldnt be allowed to keep it. these kind of dogs are known for having back problems due to their shape and puting weight on it is sure to cause pain..
    but then again who care when it amuse the kids.

  83. Aluminum chainmail, noob.

  84. “noob.”


  85. P.S. Anyone notice the eye capsules on doggie #2?

  86. Here’s more pics of Sir Oscar, taken at the same time as the first.

    (You rock too, Subhangi!)

  87. If that’s really aluminum noob chainmail, then whoever owns this dog shouldn’t be allowed to keep it. These kinds of dogs are known for early-onset Alzheimer’s and aluminum hasn’t been conclusively shown NOT to be absorbed through dog hair.

    Ohh, and aluminum is bad for your brain, mmkay.
    And your dog’s brain.

  88. Quick, someone get some puddin for Theo! Pass the marmie kitteh! Hurry!!!!

  89. lurkertype says:

    I’ve never “heard” the word “noob” delivered so well as Subhangi just did. Well done (/golf clap).

    RedZ, not only was it cold on teh b00biez, but… er… the other part of the bikini. Did you find that?

    T-O, read my cold cure post over to the Vox.

    Let slip the dachshunds of war, cry havoc — but keep them out of the pub! Huzzah!

  90. Ah, I can tell all is well in teh land of Cute. Teh hobs are nobbin’ and the hounds are tablin’ and teh peeps are pissin’ teh night away.

    *Raisin’ my glass to teh Michigan Ren Fest and all Renfairs. Long may they rave!*

  91. Lurk — that was Sarcasta with the “noob” thing. And I don’t have a cold, but thanks anyhow.

    Claudia — the tiger tab just left, actually. Probably miffed that SchmoopTeen2 ousted him, of course for PURELY selfish reasons, from his comfy perch (i.e. the other chair).

  92. Alnoobinum. Yeah, that’s it. Mmk?

  93. Great, Lauri. Now I’m humming “He drinks a whiskey drink, he drinks a vodka drink. He drinks a lager drink, he drinks a cider drink.”

    Pissing the night away…


  95. By george, I think he’s GOT IT!!!!

    (I get knocked down, but I get up again…)

  96. Aluminoob. The allweather, antinuff fabric, nuffproof, but breathable, nonbinding, and don’t forget the nooks and crannies!

  97. Discovered on the planet of Munimula, renamed Boonimula, by Rocky and Friends. And Bulltinkle.

  98. Created to discourage random chompage.

  99. Eeep? Bulltinkle???


  100. by “real” i presumed he or she meant “iron chainmail”

    either way, you’d be quite the noob, to think aluminum could save you from random chompage.

  101. T., Lauri – you remind me of one of my favorite alcohol songs…by George Thoroughbred and the Daschund Destroyers:

    “One bourbon, one scotch, one beer

    Well I visit Cute Overload
    I go there often,
    I’d also be drinking
    bourbon, whiskey, scotch and gin
    Until I’m tie-tie man the question is moot
    I’m gonna get a triple shot of that Cute
    The peeps are attending you don’t have to fear
    Still I wanted one bourbon, one scotch and one beer

    One bourbon, one scotch, one beer

    But I’m sitting at the keyboard
    I’m huffing kittehs, I’m feelin’ mellow
    I’m drinkin’ bourbon, I’m drinkin’ scotch, I’m drinkin’ beer
    Look at the comments, I see a nuffingham
    I said “Look man, come down here”
    You drive me to:

    One bourbon, one scotch, one beer

    Look, I got my cute buzz
    I want it to last,
    you drive me to drink man
    You just got no class
    Of you’re complaining I’ve had enough,
    need me a triple shot of that stuff
    I’m on the Cute Program listen right here,
    But you make me want bourbon, one scotch and one beer

    One bourbon, one scotch, one beer

    Now by this time I’m pretty mad
    you know when your mouth’s getting dry you’re plenty mad
    Looked at the comments I say to the nuffingham
    I said “Look man, come down here”, he got down there
    So what you want this time?
    I said “Look man, a-what time is it?”
    What I’m a-gonna say
    may come as a shock
    Cute ain’t for you, know what you need?”

    One bourbon, one scotch, one beer

    I’m been hard at work the whole bloody week,
    gotta get the cute till I can’t even speak
    I won’t be denied man, listen to me,
    one kitteh ain’t enough Jack you better make it three
    Getting drunk on the cute makes my mind real clear,
    I no longer want bourbon, or scotch even beer

    One bourbon, one scotch, one beer”

  102. Aubs Fo’Teh’Mo-de-fo Win, narbs! (Seriously, consider my arse soundly kicked…)

    (though, “I get knocked down…” is reverberating around my skull…)

    Remz, no need to get huffy and nuffy. Have a kitty, or a weinerdog, as the case may be. Or maybe one bourbon, one scotch, and one beer. In fact, I suggest drinks all around, and we can ALL amuse the kids together!

    Get thee to a lifery!

  103. *waves to Sarcasta*

    I’m Wendy, and I performed at MiRF for a couple of seasons as part of Minstrosity. jmthane who posted was my hammered dulcimer player, and it was AllieSutherland from the Wenches Guild who let us know that Oscar’s pic was posted.

    I just dropped Jamie (Oscar’s mom) an e-mail so she can see the posting. I didn’t have her info while I was at work this afternoon.

  104. I heard it’s not safe to play a dulcimer when you are hammered. You might want to keep on an eye on jmthane, there.

  105. But if you ARE a hammer, they might let you into the Wrenches Guild – but they would have to take it under ad-vise-ment.

  106. Blair Houghton says:


  107. I used to make chain mail and cloaks for a Ren faire – I wish I still had my wires and pliars with me, this would look awesome on my kitty!

    Sadly, I have no bikinis. Sorry, guys.

  108. awww! I wanna know where they got that!

  109. A quick note for anyone concerned about the health of the dauchshund in chainmail : That Dachshund is fine. The chainmail is not too heavy or hurting him. Anyone who has ever owned a dachshund knows that they don’t stand around complacently if something is bothering them. If the chainmail pulled his fur once in a way that hurt him he would be doing his darndest to get it off. I’ve never met a dachshund who would put up with something he didn’t like.

  110. heya
    i’m going to a fair soon haha

  111. Is he a recent addition? Because I used to go to the RenFest in Michigan two or three times a year, and I’m fairly certain my puppy radar would have been on overload.

    But I’ve been in NY for almost 4 years.

  112. That doggy rocks!! I wish I’d met him in person…but Wisconsin was closer than Michigan when I lived in South Bend, IN

    I knit mail when I was in the SCA wayyyy back mumblemumble years ago…was FUN


  113. AuntieMame, it is indeed cross of field of sable and azure, with dog, rampant.


    Complete geek moment. Now I’m debating making mail and a device for my friend’s dog. He’d be a hit.

  114. Aubrey, completely genius adaptation of that song, there.

  115. Good morning, peeps!

    Amen, thinkie.

    Aubrey, you are a mind to behold,
    We try to keep up but just gotta fold.

  116. Baroo?

    *rubbing eyes*

    Am too tired to appreciate the witty comments. Sorry peeps.

    *low, sad, doggy whine*

  117. Yep, yep, Aubrey’s mind is a gift to the universe!
    Thank Galg she uses it for good!
    If she used it for evil….well, we just all wouldn’t be here by now!


  118. *pats Subhangi* Sorry you are tie tie.

    *Firmly places mug o’ puddin’ in your hand.*

    It’s still steamin’.

  119. Just think, with the wrong drug in the wrong environment we might have ended up with the Queen of Hearts. As it is, we’re grateful to have the heart of a queen among us. 😉

  120. Did the dog in chainmail fart in the general direction of the other puppeh? Does he need a shrubbery, cuz it looks like he needs a shrubbery.

    Bring out yer dead.

  121. ROFL, Kris!

  122. Kris sez,
    “Did the dog in chainmail fart in the general direction of the other puppeh?”
    however, his father was a hamster.

  123. [just now catching up]

    DAY-uhm, Aubrey. Yer makin’ me wanna restring the gitter & fire up my crusty old amp.
    Hmm, maybe this could be how we bring Sarcasta’s schmoopie into the Qte™ fold, too.


  124. Hrmm.. I dunno. In my book, pups != pocket pets. But awesome costumes.

  125. I dunno, the red-coated puppeh has a guilty look on his face, like he just bit the dog in chainmail.

    It’s just a flesh wound.

  126. Oh, shite. I just finally saw Aunti Mame’s bit about AuntieMame, “cross of field of sable and azure, with dog, rampant.”

    That’s all we need around here a rampant weenie.

  127. I’m thinking aluminoob chainmail isn’t the right protection against rampant weenies, RedZ.

  128. Sure it is, AmyH. Think of it from a rampant weenie’s point of view.
    I’m fairly confident he’d opt for a softer target.

  129. Theo – I was trying to be a bit ‘naughty’, maybe I’m the only one who has her mind in the gutter this Friday morning. Oh, shame on me. This being a family site and all.
    [slaps own hand]
    [giggles at naughty image of rampant weenies]

  130. I am trained in the discipline of multiple entendres, AmyH.
    I know what lurks in the minds of Naughty Nancies (and Normans).
    Take your email address, for example. Catch many?

  131. [snicker]
    Sadly, no, Theo. There was a time when the catches were plentiful, and many were thrown back into the sea. The others soon spoiled and now I’ve grown tired of casting the nets.
    Great, now I’m depressed. MFBT, indeed.

  132. [hoists a flaming bunnehcreme]

  133. ‘Skoal!’

    Damn! If only the goalie would stop wandering from the front of the net…


  134. ROFL, Theo and AmyH. Just ROFL.

    And I am sure you are correct about the rampant weenies, Theo.

    RedZ, I love your mind, too!

  135. [takes a sip from pom margarita, mends net to be ready for the weekend]

    And a hoist of a frosty mug to you, Theo.

    I made that up, obvy, but I think it’s a fine toast.

    [keeps eye out for rampant weenies to liven things up]

  136. Here’s some LOL-candy for your mind’s eye: RAMPANT WEENIE STAMPEDE.

  137. not to rain on the parade,
    but ‘chain mail’ is redundant. ‘Mail’ (in armor) IS chain.

  138. Oh my oh have got to be kidding me…I coulda SWORE there was a whole site devoted to stampeding rampant weenies!!!

  139. NebraskaErin says:

    Oh, my day just got so much better.

  140. Phooey. I was all set for a rampant weenie stampede. But then again, stampedes aren’t usually the most organized events, so the rampant weenies probably don’t have it together enough to post their schedule.

  141. hey kids, this is only *tangentially* related to the topic at hand. but it does mention RenFairs.

    Weird Al in da houz!

  142. I LOVE Weird Al, mariser!
    My son was playing this vid this afternoon and we were hootin’! 🙂

    (AmyH said “post”)

  143. Please to note that is (sigh with love) Donny Osmond dancing in the background. He may be a grandfather, but he’s still got it.

  144. AmyH,

    We certainly don’t want the rampant weenies to go off half-cocked.

    (slaps own wrist before anyone else gets a chance too)

  145. Sweet tap-dancing Christ on a cracker. “gets a chance TO”

  146. For a second there, I thought you were talking about me. But it made no sense that way.

  147. Ok peeps! You want cute puppy dogs, do ya!

    Here ya go…

    But if your head explodes, don’t blame me…I waned you!

  148. Well, at least you didn’t wax me.
    (Kidding. I kid.)

  149. Good one, Theo!

    Its still verely cute puppy dog people, a Corgi puppy!

  150. it is adorable, but let us remember that the only real mail needs to be over the anus area. i cannto keep my dog out of my cats butt.

  151. ROFL, Aubrey, I say “christ on a cracker” all the time!

    *Slaps you additionally just because your halfcocked remark was so good*

    And, I didn’t notice that it was Donny in the background! How funny! Thanks for pointing that out! 🙂

  152. Rafael,
    A friend of mine has Corgis and now I see why she keeps getting more! That might be the cutest puppy I ever saw!!!

    My friend has 6 or 7 now, I think.

  153. Ok, cute. But if yer gonna put chainmail on a dog…

    shouldn’t it be a mastiff or a great dane?

  154. That really is a medival dog!lol

  155. i have a doxie named Sir Lancelot so thats pretty cool